Gatto’s point in this regard (well, one of them) is the detrimental homogenization of forcing kids of the same age into a classroom to be taught by a single person. The bell curve of abilities is often forced towards the middle…

So where does this pressure come from? If anything, from peer pressure, and mixing children in with older children is only going to make that worse (the older ones feel threatened by smart young ones).

Are there situations where I could have learned more being outside of school? Yes, I suppose so. How often does that happen? Rarely.

Dr. Romney was probably the single example of poor teaching in my stay at BYU. There is absolutely no way I could have gained the knowledge I now have any other way than by attending a university. Sitting in the room with someone who as studied physics, philosophy, geography or art most of their life is invaluable to me.

I’m not saying school is perfect, I’m saying its better. I’ll take the occasional Romney given the rest of the benefits, as there’s no match to the level of education I gained otherwise.

Referencing Dr. Romney as the example of a university education simply isn’t representative.

Saying that everybody needs to learn what the state enforces stifles intellectual diversity and career creativity. I think this is the crux of Gatto’s stance.

Interesting. This seems to me to lead to even tighter specialization in our culture. We’d be overloaded with people who can only do a narrow range of things: the things they like.

Teach ye diligently and my grace shall attend you, that you may be instructed more perfectly in theory, in principle, in doctrine, in the law of the gospel, in all things that pertain unto the kingdom of God, that are expedient for you to understand;

Of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the nations, and the judgments which are on the land; and a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms—
D&C 88:79

Translated, that looks to me to read that we are to learn all things religious, but even the natural sciences, astronomy, history, current events, domestic and foreign politics, law, geography..

I don’t think the state is expecting anything out of line. With the church’s recent focus on education, I don’t think God is as displeased with formal education as Mr. Gatto.

That spirit of discernment sure works wonders…

I’m not talking about what any particular person should do, I’m talking about Gatto’s views and what would work best in general.

Indeed, but when the environment contains within it certain characteristics that make it more difficult to study and learn, one would do best by removing him/herself from that environment. If I want to read a book, I’m much better able to do it in a quiet library rather than a football stadium. Certainly, one’s environment has an effect on the ability to focus, study, and learn.

I fail to see why students can’t learn as well from people trained to teach them.

Gatto’s point in this regard (well, one of them) is the detrimental homogenation of forcing kids of the same age into a classroom to be taught by a single person. The bell curve of abilities is often forced towards the middle, thus stifling the progression of the above average children and forcing more resources to be devoted to the “child left behind” to bring him/her up to par.

Need I bring up the example of Dr. Romney? :) I would much rather spend my time apprenticing in a business, attending other lectures, or working on projects of my own choosing than to be subjected to a class by a teacher like him (from what I heard).

You say that you gained quite a bit from your general education, but perhaps there were other students in your classes (like me) who would have learned much more by removing him/herself from that environment and finding other opportunities or circumstances to learn relevant material.

Gatto wrote that “only self-teaching has any lasting value.” I agree. You might have been more advanced than others in having fostered that personal desire to learn and gain additional knowledge, but I feel that many children do not fit the bill, and rather do their homework and fulfill their assignments because they are being forced to do so. Sadly, they’d rather play some Wii and watch TV than learn anything worthwhile.

Saying that everybody needs to learn what the state enforces stifles intellectual diversity and career creativity. I think this is the crux of Gatto’s stance.

The system is flawed, and the current methods of throwing more money at it and creating new standards and exams will not, in my opinion, solve anything. As Gatto writes: “More money and more people pumped into this sick institution will only make it sicker.”

As is evident from some of my previous posts, I know we differ quite a bit on our stance on public education. You raise some key issues, but I still feel that public education isn’t for everybody. That being said, neither is homeschooling or other forms of “alternative” education. Good thing we have the Holy Ghost, eh? That spirit of discernment sure works wonders…